That's really lovely, Hannie - thanks for sharing it. Hi right back to you and your chickens on this gray morning - I hope they're not too soggy today. Jess
I don't know... I think you should come ride the L train yourself a few times before you decide if Woginrich knows what she's talking about.
The "You can spot us pretty easily" paragraph could be used to describe whole swathes of the population in Brooklyn, Vancouver, Portland, Baltimore, etc.
There's a strangely adversarial tone to this entire missive that, coupled with the wistful imagery, makes her sound like one of those die-hard burning man lifers who talk about existing on a higher plane than their fellow man. I don't want to go so far as to say she's drunk her own kool-aid; but who, exactly, is she addressing here?
I think she's inventing some spectre whose 'otherness' is ripe for vilification. Is this a manifesto? Maybe and maybe not. But it's always preferable to write your own than to jump on board somebody else's. Is there any purer form of self-reliance?
No, I'm pretty sure I know what she's talking about. And I'm darn sure she knows what she's talking about. I guess you just have to be.....hmmm, could I say, "one of us"? to know what she's talking about. And, no, it couldn't describe a city :`
Nope, she's not. She's addressing people who are willing to listen. She's inviting people to try her lifestyle, because she's tried both city and....other, and knows which one she likes best.
Also, no....she's not making it up. I've been there....in fact, I live there. I'm waving, just across the fence, can you see me?
The purest form of self-reliance.....hmm....well, I guess it's different for everybody, but I think "Woginrich" and I have pretty much the same idea.~Apparently an Alien, aka, Hannahoot.
Well, for starters, the thing I think she is making up (the 'other' in this context) is the intended recipient of the mildly accusatory "What? You're confused? Oh, well, you probably saw us there and just didn't realize it." It's a common device in persuasive writing. She forms the image of a vapid, loud, frozen-food hoarding, scapegoat character; someone she places squarely on the opposite side of her metaphorical fence; someone who is "afraid of dirt," unkind to animals, lives on fast food, is glued to the TV, and has no idea how to make anything with their hands.
If that's your concept of city life, you are guilty of the sin of over-generalization. I'm sure there are Lunchables for sale somewhere here in Brooklyn, but nobody I know would have the first clue where to buy them. We have community farms and gardens, food coops, and more workshops than you could shake a stick at. Don't even talk to me about dirt. Ha ha. Crafts and industry are alive and well and there is a consciousness toward consumption here that is taken very, very seriously.
Moreover, we talk to our neighbors. That's because cities are made up of neighborhoods, and they stop being faceless the instant you start living in one. The woolen neck that I wear when I ride my bike (what's your car ownership per capita?) in the winter was knitted for me by a friend and neighbor. She makes her living this way and by teaching throngs of city dwellers to do the same. My friend Anne is a cheesemonger at the Essex Street. Market and she keeps me supplied with Cobb Hill Ascutney and chevre from Lazy Lady Farm in Westfield. She makes her living because her customers respect the regionalism with which she constrains her offerings. You have probably seen her (for real) on her bike up in your neck of the woods. She spends enough time up there, but she lives six blocks away from me in Carol Gardens.
At this point I could really wax poetic about the interconnectedness of all human endeavors and start quoting John Donne, but you can read that guy for yourself. Donne is better when you do.
Anyway, there is a time in everyone's life when it's perfectly appropriate to be set in your ways and to draw lines in the sand, but that time is simply not your early teens. The world is huge and filled with rich forms of existence that don't even apply to this urban vs.rural dichotomy. The point is, I hope you give yourself the time to travel and take it all in with your own eyes, and I sincerely hope you come visit while you're doing it.
"Anyway, there is a time in everyone's life when it's perfectly appropriate to be set in your ways and to draw lines in the sand, but that time is simply not your early teens"
How is 45?
First of all...I see the article as a positive affirmation of what I want for my children; to live simply, value simple pleasures, be good stewards of their time and their place...wherever that may be. I am proud of my daughter for reading it and valuing it.
Secondly my interpretation of the article was that the "place" was a state of mind, a value-system. Certainly not an argument...she wrote it, for goodness sake, for Mother Earth News...most readers are already there.
I certainly didn't understand it to be a rural vs urban piece...
"We're not from around here, but you'll see us everywhere. We're walking down the streets of Montreal, Chicago, Seattle and L.A. We're waiting for a taxi on the Lower East Side. We're mucking out the chicken coop, chatting at the farm stand, jumping on the back of our horses and riding the L"
I also don't want my children to be limited by anything...I want them to embrace the world and the time they've been given...to explore, to relish their lives...to love life and their relationships. Again, wherever that may be. It's also okay to love where you are planted. Living a life on family land surrounded by a multi-generational family, green grass, trees and hills... if that's what you love (it's been a lovely life for me) than that will be just fine as well. I don't find a need to argue the benefits, or better-ness (yup..you read that right) of this life. It works for me...maybe not you...I don't care...and you shouldn't either. I do care about you and your happiness...where that is is up to you.
Hann, I know you weren't looking for a debate when you posted that...but one of the points, I believe, that Tim's making is that you should be able to think and experience for yourself all that life has to offer. These are good points and I'm sure he has all good intentions for his young cousin...accept it in that spirit.
Well for me 13 simply is the right time. Would I like to visit some other parts of the world? Yes, a few places. But in the end, I'll be here--or rather, over in my field. That's just me. I'm not a city person--heck, I'm not a town person. Springfield at night is overwhelming enough, I can't even imagine what my stress levels would be at in a city.
Good for you and your neighbors--that is exactly the kind of thing Miss Woginrich is trying to promote. I simply posted that article because it just really made me feel good--I wasn't pointing fingers at people and saying that "see? MY life is better then YOUR life." It wasn't intended for anyone in particular....just something that I felt had a very positive and interesting message.
Miss Woginrich is not saying that all people in the city are "vapid, loud, frozen-food hoarding, scapegoat character; someone she places squarely on the opposite side of her metaphorical fence; someone who is "afraid of dirt," unkind to animals, lives on fast food, is glued to the TV, and has no idea how to make anything with their hands."--and she's not saying all people from the country are perfect and dandy. She was sending an invitation to ALL the people out there who are looking for a simpler way to live. And she was sending encouragement to all the people out there that are already living simply...in the city, country, suburbs, wild west or ANYWHERE! She just put into words something that a lot of people feel strongly about. As I do.
I'm not jumping into a lifestyle just because I like the way it sounds. I had started living simply before I had even heard of Miss Woginrich. And I know that this is the life I want.
In the end, I guess this is my point....
Miss Woginrich did not write that article specifically for city folk. She did not write it specifically for country folk. She wrote it for people everywhere. I did not post that for my city-dwelling relatives. I posted it for my family, because it articulated my life better then I could have put it. And that's the end of it for me, because I like what I like and I'm doing what I like. Done. Over.~Hannahoot.
P.S. Done except for one little thing....Dirt? I'll talk to you about dirt, 'cause I know dirt very well....I am frequently in close quarters with it's cousin--mud.
:) Ha ha, no I'm sure nobody was looking for a debate, but when they happen between curious and inquisitive types, nothing but good can come of it. Frankly, it's fun, and I have grown to appreciate all the elders that took the time to antagonize me as a kid. The boundaries that used to separate our societies just don't exist anymore. Where is my cheese from? Where is your computer from? Who makes our parkas? I'm constantly telling machinist friends to look into Lovejoy cutters for their mills. I just sent some Gramercy saws to London last month (a hoot because their closest historical relative is a Kenyon saw brought FROM London in the late 1700s). Ali, you've got a dime and change on me, yes, but somehow 45 sounds young. Please take this in the most bubbly tone you can imagine coming from me, and understand that I'm probs a little freaked out about turning 30 this year. I guess when I was talking about a time to be set in your ways, I was thinking of Grampa. Does anybody dare tell him not to smoke? Maybe that's an indicator, ha ha. In any case, despite the warm fuzzy feelings that article was meant to inspire, I still have issues with it, a critical response, and a contrary viewpoint. I don't have any misgivings about who the article is FOR, per se. As far as I'm concerned, it's for everybody that reads English and has the time to sit at a computer. That said, I did detect something sinister In the way she continually addresses the "you" on the other side of the fence. I'd even go so far as to say that the author is also aware of the fact this dichotomy is being set up, precisely because she chooses to include that graf about Montreal, Seattle, etc. It seems tacked on and doesn't ring true to my ear. Why? Because taxi usage in the LES is not so apolitical these days. All my farm-raised friends wouldn't be caught dead hailing a cab, let alone in the LES. I read this paragraph as a safety net, and it's very existence tells me that she's got more of an agenda than a simple affirmation of the good life.
But that's my reaction to the article. I don't trust the author because I think she uses cheap tactics to get her point across. It feels like the way paintings in a dentist's lobby portend doom. They hang what looks calming and palatable, and all the extra effort to soothe the waiting room just confirms the fact that you're about to have the unnerving experience of steel tools in your mouth. Anyway, removed by distance as I may be, I like to think that posting this article for the family meant me too, and if I'm the only one with which it fails to jive, then that makes it doubly vital that I speak up. So, cousin, you can see my second concern is that you've allowed this article to sum things up for you. You say she articulated your life better than you could have put it. I do not believe this for one second. You are highly articulate. It is very plain to see that you could easily pen a much better summation of your existence if you set out to do it. Latching onto other authors lock stock and barrel is the easy way out and you're better than that. Again, I don't think as much separates our ways of life as is worth arguing. Nor am I selling anything. But I have to ask what you think is so stressful about city life? Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that you love the life you have. What I don't understand is where your convictions regarding city life come from. Seriously, I want to know. Debate, argument, and discussion are often given a short shrift because these days people seem to value nonconfrontation. Ali, can you honestly say that you didn't use the word 'debate' pejoratively? I'd like to think I know us all well enough to say that no one is going to lose composure or start holding long-term petty grudges over this, so what is the danger of exploring these issue to the fullest? Is the blog not livelier for it? H, at this point you've shared more words with me online than you ever have in person. Have you been duped into talking to your cousin? Maybe. :) -T
PS: Continuing our post-script dirt war; if you think you can school me on filth, you can't. If had a nickel for every time I was covered from head to toe, I'd be eating nickel soup. I've worked in a foundry. I used to have to handle asbestos and lead at my old job. My dirt could give your dirt cancer. I'm just lucky that Halley thinks the grime under my fingernails is hotter than it is gross, because it's never going away.
Well, you've succeeded in making me laugh, Tim. And with fondness...not the malicious sort. In any case...Oh, and hey...you called me young...so double points for you.
Debate....Yes, there is an immediate negative connotation for me. It comes from 29 years of living with a wonderful man who likes to debate everything...from how to hang out laundry to...to, well you name it. Sometimes I just like agreements. I will go so far as to say that it is a healthy thing to (at times) discuss alternate view points in order to educate yourself and maybe even solidify your own opinions. Ali
Oh I do enjoy a good debate....I don't frequently get a rational one. Cheese....depends on the brand. My computer...could actually be from VT, since IBM is in VT. Parkas? China. Those were rhetorical questions, I'm sure, but I just couldn't let them slip by.....
Isn't "a dime and change" a bit repetitive? Ha ha, Matt dares to tell him not to smoke!
Sinister? Oh honestly.....First of all, would it change your perspective if you knew that this article actually was taken from her blog? She posts everything from when the chicks will hatch to a new knitting pattern. Highly sinister. I've even exchanged a few emails with her....there's nothing "sinister" about her, or what she's saying. Why would she want to sound like that if she's trying to encourage people to come over to her "side of the fence", and see what it's like?
So what might her true agenda be, if it's not the obvious? And you really can't base your trust in the author after reading just one article/blog post.....unless I'm mistaken, you haven't read any of her other writing.
It did sum things up. Sure, I might be able to write a better one for me, but do I want to spend my time writing it, or actually doing what I'm writing about.....while I'm sitting at my computer trying to find the right words, I might miss 3:47 PM. I stumbled across the article, and I liked it. It just made me happy that there were other people out there that knew exactly what I was talking about. I don't "latch" on to things.......it's so.....typical, for a teenage girl, and I hate being typical.
You might be surprised! Let's see....noise, crowds, lights, no space to really move. I need to be able to see the sky, and go barefoot in the grass....I hate being stuck inside for more then a couple days, and I just need my home. I literally get "home-sick" when I'm away for too long. Just one week is to long to be away from home for me. That, combined with my above list=stress, and lots of it. All things that are used to describe a city. That's where.
I DO NOT like arguments, but debates and discussions I'll join with enthusiasm (can you tell?), and I don't let go til I've gotten my point across (in a mature and civilized manner :). No grudges will be held, and the blog is much livelier.....perhaps we should start a weekly debate? Someone picks a subject at the beginning of the week and it's debated till the following Monday....Hee hee, I could really get into that....
Duped? Duped? I am never duped.....because duped is French (through loose translation) for fool! And I am no fool! And if want to talk to me, I suggest you start a debate about chickens.....that will give you a run for your money! ~Hannahoot
P.S. Alright, you are well acquainted with dirt, I'll give you that....but I could definitely teach you a thing or two about mud.....trust me. I live next to a swamp.
I'm going to stand by sinister. Certainly not sinister in the sense that it would imply immediate peril. No, that would be absurd. However, I happen to find generalizations intellectually perilous. If you'll take a minute to forgive the hyperbole, I think you'd agree.
With that in mind, I think you're still giving city life a short shrift. You make it sound like Times Square extends to every corner. There's a much wider range of experience here than that, and tons of places to go barefoot if you want to. Most of my life revolves around the Brooklyn waterfront. There is abundant skyward viewing and pleasant harbor breezes. Sleepy Van Brunt street offers some sincerely pleasant post-brunch Sunday strolling.
Anyway, yes to debates, and also to critique. When such are kept professional and constructive everyone's endeavors become enriched. You pick the next topic. I'm game for anything from health care to mud. I'll warn you, though. I'm from Florida. I grew up playing in swamps.
Intellectually perilous? Hardly. Annoying, yes, but to state it as perilous is a laughable exaggeration.
Perhaps, but it isn't country, and country is the only place for me. It's not my sky, and they are not my breezes......my family has lived on this land under my feet (which are bare) for centuries....it's MINE. I know the land; I know where the Big Dipper is in September, the old farmers and they're families, I count the deer that eat the apples under the tree that was planted in 1850 by Selah Root Arms....my great great great great grandfather. My roots are here, no pun intended.
Next topic....hmmmm.....I can't really think of anything (at this moment) that wouldn't give me an unfair advantage :).....not that I'm trying to cheat, I just honestly cannot think of something........
Really, along with the alligators and snakes? I'm growing up playing, living, working, and chasing foxes in a swamp. You might want to back down on the mud debate--I warn YOU, I have not yet begun to fight! :)~Hannahoot
YES with the alligators and the snakes! They're spectacular and intimidating. One particular encounter along the Loxahatchee stands out in my mind; My father and I were canoeing. We came within a few feet of a humongous female alligator sleeping on her nest. Needless to say, we were quiet. In any case, my scout troop had a herpetologist come once a year and give a refresher on snake identification and snakebite first aid. Do you know what to do?
Anyway, It's good to know where your roots are. It's a little more of a mystery for me. I mean, we share grandfathers, but it's not like I live on the family plot or anything. Not everyone is so lucky. At no point have I said that the country isn't the place for you. I wouldn't dream of it. You don't have to sell me on it either. I've been there. I don't visit as often as I'd like but i think about it often. When are you coming to Brooklyn? We have to play boccie at Union Hall.
Generalizations and stereotypes and their proliferation have caused a large portion of the human suffering in this world. I find them deeply perilous. Calling them out is vital.
P.S. Where do you live? :)~Hannahoot
ReplyDeleteThat's really lovely, Hannie - thanks for sharing it. Hi right back to you and your chickens on this gray morning - I hope they're not too soggy today.
ReplyDeleteJess
I don't know...
ReplyDeleteI think you should come ride the L train yourself a few times before you decide if Woginrich knows what she's talking about.
The "You can spot us pretty easily" paragraph could be used to describe whole swathes of the population in Brooklyn, Vancouver, Portland, Baltimore, etc.
There's a strangely adversarial tone to this entire missive that, coupled with the wistful imagery, makes her sound like one of those die-hard burning man lifers who talk about existing on a higher plane than their fellow man. I don't want to go so far as to say she's drunk her own kool-aid; but who, exactly, is she addressing here?
I think she's inventing some spectre whose 'otherness' is ripe for vilification. Is this a manifesto? Maybe and maybe not. But it's always preferable to write your own than to jump on board somebody else's. Is there any purer form of self-reliance?
No, I'm pretty sure I know what she's talking about. And I'm darn sure she knows what she's talking about. I guess you just have to be.....hmmm, could I say, "one of us"? to know what she's talking about. And, no, it couldn't describe a city :`
ReplyDeleteNope, she's not. She's addressing people who are willing to listen. She's inviting people to try her lifestyle, because she's tried both city and....other, and knows which one she likes best.
Also, no....she's not making it up. I've been there....in fact, I live there. I'm waving, just across the fence, can you see me?
The purest form of self-reliance.....hmm....well, I guess it's different for everybody, but I think "Woginrich" and I have pretty much the same idea.~Apparently an Alien, aka, Hannahoot.
hmm
ReplyDeletehmmm
Well, for starters, the thing I think she is making up (the 'other' in this context) is the intended recipient of the mildly accusatory "What? You're confused? Oh, well, you probably saw us there and just didn't realize it."
It's a common device in persuasive writing.
She forms the image of a vapid, loud, frozen-food hoarding, scapegoat character; someone she places squarely on the opposite side of her metaphorical fence; someone who is "afraid of dirt," unkind to animals, lives on fast food, is glued to the TV, and has no idea how to make anything with their hands.
If that's your concept of city life, you are guilty of the sin of over-generalization. I'm sure there are Lunchables for sale somewhere here in Brooklyn, but nobody I know would have the first clue where to buy them. We have community farms and gardens, food coops, and more workshops than you could shake a stick at. Don't even talk to me about dirt. Ha ha. Crafts and industry are alive and well and there is a consciousness toward consumption here that is taken very, very seriously.
Moreover, we talk to our neighbors. That's because cities are made up of neighborhoods, and they stop being faceless the instant you start living in one. The woolen neck that I wear when I ride my bike (what's your car ownership per capita?) in the winter was knitted for me by a friend and neighbor. She makes her living this way and by teaching throngs of city dwellers to do the same. My friend Anne is a cheesemonger at the Essex Street. Market and she keeps me supplied with Cobb Hill Ascutney and chevre from Lazy Lady Farm in Westfield. She makes her living because her customers respect the regionalism with which she constrains her offerings. You have probably seen her (for real) on her bike up in your neck of the woods. She spends enough time up there, but she lives six blocks away from me in Carol Gardens.
At this point I could really wax poetic about the interconnectedness of all human endeavors and start quoting John Donne, but you can read that guy for yourself. Donne is better when you do.
Anyway, there is a time in everyone's life when it's perfectly appropriate to be set in your ways and to draw lines in the sand, but that time is simply not your early teens. The world is huge and filled with rich forms of existence that don't even apply to this urban vs.rural dichotomy. The point is, I hope you give yourself the time to travel and take it all in with your own eyes, and I sincerely hope you come visit while you're doing it.
-T
"Anyway, there is a time in everyone's life when it's perfectly appropriate to be set in your ways and to draw lines in the sand, but that time is simply not your early teens"
ReplyDeleteHow is 45?
First of all...I see the article as a positive affirmation of what I want for my children; to live simply, value simple pleasures, be good stewards of their time and their place...wherever that may be. I am proud of my daughter for reading it and valuing it.
Secondly my interpretation of the article was that the "place" was a state of mind, a value-system. Certainly not an argument...she wrote it, for goodness sake, for Mother Earth News...most readers are already there.
I certainly didn't understand it to be a rural vs urban piece...
"We're not from around here, but you'll see us everywhere. We're walking down the streets of Montreal, Chicago, Seattle and L.A. We're waiting for a taxi on the Lower East Side. We're mucking out the chicken coop, chatting at the farm stand, jumping on the back of our horses and riding the L"
I also don't want my children to be limited by anything...I want them to embrace the world and the time they've been given...to explore, to relish their lives...to love life and their relationships. Again, wherever that may be. It's also okay to love where you are planted. Living a life on family land surrounded by a multi-generational family, green grass, trees and hills... if that's what you love (it's been a lovely life for me) than that will be just fine as well. I don't find a need to argue the benefits, or better-ness (yup..you read that right) of this life. It works for me...maybe not you...I don't care...and you shouldn't either. I do care about you and your happiness...where that is is up to you.
Hann, I know you weren't looking for a debate when you posted that...but one of the points, I believe, that Tim's making is that you should be able to think and experience for yourself all that life has to offer. These are good points and I'm sure he has all good intentions for his young cousin...accept it in that spirit.
~Ali/Mama
Well for me 13 simply is the right time. Would I like to visit some other parts of the world? Yes, a few places. But in the end, I'll be here--or rather, over in my field. That's just me. I'm not a city person--heck, I'm not a town person. Springfield at night is overwhelming enough, I can't even imagine what my stress levels would be at in a city.
ReplyDeleteGood for you and your neighbors--that is exactly the kind of thing Miss Woginrich is trying to promote. I simply posted that article because it just really made me feel good--I wasn't pointing fingers at people and saying that "see? MY life is better then YOUR life." It wasn't intended for anyone in particular....just something that I felt had a very positive and interesting message.
Miss Woginrich is not saying that all people in the city are "vapid, loud, frozen-food hoarding, scapegoat character; someone she places squarely on the opposite side of her metaphorical fence; someone who is "afraid of dirt," unkind to animals, lives on fast food, is glued to the TV, and has no idea how to make anything with their hands."--and she's not saying all people from the country are perfect and dandy. She was sending an invitation to ALL the people out there who are looking for a simpler way to live. And she was sending encouragement to all the people out there that are already living simply...in the city, country, suburbs, wild west or ANYWHERE! She just put into words something that a lot of people feel strongly about. As I do.
I'm not jumping into a lifestyle just because I like the way it sounds. I had started living simply before I had even heard of Miss Woginrich. And I know that this is the life I want.
In the end, I guess this is my point....
Miss Woginrich did not write that article specifically for city folk. She did not write it specifically for country folk. She wrote it for people everywhere. I did not post that for my city-dwelling relatives. I posted it for my family, because it articulated my life better then I could have put it. And that's the end of it for me, because I like what I like and I'm doing what I like. Done. Over.~Hannahoot.
P.S. Done except for one little thing....Dirt? I'll talk to you about dirt, 'cause I know dirt very well....I am frequently in close quarters with it's cousin--mud.
:) Ha ha, no I'm sure nobody was looking for a debate, but when they happen between curious and inquisitive types, nothing but good can come of it. Frankly, it's fun, and I have grown to appreciate all the elders that took the time to antagonize me as a kid.
ReplyDeleteThe boundaries that used to separate our societies just don't exist anymore. Where is my cheese from? Where is your computer from? Who makes our parkas? I'm constantly telling machinist friends to look into Lovejoy cutters for their mills. I just sent some Gramercy saws to London last month (a hoot because their closest historical relative is a Kenyon saw brought FROM London in the late 1700s).
Ali, you've got a dime and change on me, yes, but somehow 45 sounds young. Please take this in the most bubbly tone you can imagine coming from me, and understand that I'm probs a little freaked out about turning 30 this year. I guess when I was talking about a time to be set in your ways, I was thinking of Grampa. Does anybody dare tell him not to smoke? Maybe that's an indicator, ha ha.
In any case, despite the warm fuzzy feelings that article was meant to inspire, I still have issues with it, a critical response, and a contrary viewpoint. I don't have any misgivings about who the article is FOR, per se. As far as I'm concerned, it's for everybody that reads English and has the time to sit at a computer. That said, I did detect something sinister In the way she continually addresses the "you" on the other side of the fence.
I'd even go so far as to say that the author is also aware of the fact this dichotomy is being set up, precisely because she chooses to include that graf about Montreal, Seattle, etc. It seems tacked on and doesn't ring true to my ear. Why? Because taxi usage in the LES is not so apolitical these days. All my farm-raised friends wouldn't be caught dead hailing a cab, let alone in the LES. I read this paragraph as a safety net, and it's very existence tells me that she's got more of an agenda than a simple affirmation of the good life.
But that's my reaction to the article. I don't trust the author because I think she uses cheap tactics to get her point across. It feels like the way paintings in a dentist's lobby portend doom. They hang what looks calming and palatable, and all the extra effort to soothe the waiting room just confirms the fact that you're about to have the unnerving experience of steel tools in your mouth.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, removed by distance as I may be, I like to think that posting this article for the family meant me too, and if I'm the only one with which it fails to jive, then that makes it doubly vital that I speak up.
So, cousin, you can see my second concern is that you've allowed this article to sum things up for you. You say she articulated your life better than you could have put it. I do not believe this for one second. You are highly articulate. It is very plain to see that you could easily pen a much better summation of your existence if you set out to do it. Latching onto other authors lock stock and barrel is the easy way out and you're better than that.
Again, I don't think as much separates our ways of life as is worth arguing. Nor am I selling anything. But I have to ask what you think is so stressful about city life? Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that you love the life you have. What I don't understand is where your convictions regarding city life come from. Seriously, I want to know.
Debate, argument, and discussion are often given a short shrift because these days people seem to value nonconfrontation. Ali, can you honestly say that you didn't use the word 'debate' pejoratively? I'd like to think I know us all well enough to say that no one is going to lose composure or start holding long-term petty grudges over this, so what is the danger of exploring these issue to the fullest? Is the blog not livelier for it?
H, at this point you've shared more words with me online than you ever have in person. Have you been duped into talking to your cousin? Maybe. :)
-T
PS: Continuing our post-script dirt war; if you think you can school me on filth, you can't. If had a nickel for every time I was covered from head to toe, I'd be eating nickel soup. I've worked in a foundry. I used to have to handle asbestos and lead at my old job. My dirt could give your dirt cancer. I'm just lucky that Halley thinks the grime under my fingernails is hotter than it is gross, because it's never going away.
ReplyDeleteWell, you've succeeded in making me laugh, Tim. And with fondness...not the malicious sort. In any case...Oh, and hey...you called me young...so double points for you.
ReplyDeleteDebate....Yes, there is an immediate negative connotation for me. It comes from 29 years of living with a wonderful man who likes to debate everything...from how to hang out laundry to...to, well you name it. Sometimes I just like agreements. I will go so far as to say that it is a healthy thing to (at times) discuss alternate view points in order to educate yourself and maybe even solidify your own opinions. Ali
Oh I do enjoy a good debate....I don't frequently get a rational one. Cheese....depends on the brand. My computer...could actually be from VT, since IBM is in VT. Parkas? China. Those were rhetorical questions, I'm sure, but I just couldn't let them slip by.....
ReplyDeleteIsn't "a dime and change" a bit repetitive? Ha ha, Matt dares to tell him not to smoke!
Sinister? Oh honestly.....First of all, would it change your perspective if you knew that this article actually was taken from her blog? She posts everything from when the chicks will hatch to a new knitting pattern. Highly sinister. I've even exchanged a few emails with her....there's nothing "sinister" about her, or what she's saying. Why would she want to sound like that if she's trying to encourage people to come over to her "side of the fence", and see what it's like?
So what might her true agenda be, if it's not the obvious? And you really can't base your trust in the author after reading just one article/blog post.....unless I'm mistaken, you haven't read any of her other writing.
It did sum things up. Sure, I might be able to write a better one for me, but do I want to spend my time writing it, or actually doing what I'm writing about.....while I'm sitting at my computer trying to find the right words, I might miss 3:47 PM. I stumbled across the article, and I liked it. It just made me happy that there were other people out there that knew exactly what I was talking about. I don't "latch" on to things.......it's so.....typical, for a teenage girl, and I hate being typical.
You might be surprised! Let's see....noise, crowds, lights, no space to really move. I need to be able to see the sky, and go barefoot in the grass....I hate being stuck inside for more then a couple days, and I just need my home. I literally get "home-sick" when I'm away for too long. Just one week is to long to be away from home for me. That, combined with my above list=stress, and lots of it. All things that are used to describe a city. That's where.
I DO NOT like arguments, but debates and discussions I'll join with enthusiasm (can you tell?), and I don't let go til I've gotten my point across (in a mature and civilized manner :). No grudges will be held, and the blog is much livelier.....perhaps we should start a weekly debate? Someone picks a subject at the beginning of the week and it's debated till the following Monday....Hee hee, I could really get into that....
Duped? Duped? I am never duped.....because duped is French (through loose translation) for fool! And I am no fool! And if want to talk to me, I suggest you start a debate about chickens.....that will give you a run for your money!
~Hannahoot
P.S. Alright, you are well acquainted with dirt, I'll give you that....but I could definitely teach you a thing or two about mud.....trust me. I live next to a swamp.
I'm going to stand by sinister. Certainly not sinister in the sense that it would imply immediate peril. No, that would be absurd. However, I happen to find generalizations intellectually perilous. If you'll take a minute to forgive the hyperbole, I think you'd agree.
ReplyDeleteWith that in mind, I think you're still giving city life a short shrift. You make it sound like Times Square extends to every corner. There's a much wider range of experience here than that, and tons of places to go barefoot if you want to. Most of my life revolves around the Brooklyn waterfront. There is abundant skyward viewing and pleasant harbor breezes. Sleepy Van Brunt street offers some sincerely pleasant post-brunch Sunday strolling.
Anyway, yes to debates, and also to critique. When such are kept professional and constructive everyone's endeavors become enriched. You pick the next topic. I'm game for anything from health care to mud. I'll warn you, though. I'm from Florida. I grew up playing in swamps.
Intellectually perilous? Hardly. Annoying, yes, but to state it as perilous is a laughable exaggeration.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, but it isn't country, and country is the only place for me. It's not my sky, and they are not my breezes......my family has lived on this land under my feet (which are bare) for centuries....it's MINE. I know the land; I know where the Big Dipper is in September, the old farmers and they're families, I count the deer that eat the apples under the tree that was planted in 1850 by Selah Root Arms....my great great great great grandfather. My roots are here, no pun intended.
Next topic....hmmmm.....I can't really think of anything (at this moment) that wouldn't give me an unfair advantage :).....not that I'm trying to cheat, I just honestly cannot think of something........
Really, along with the alligators and snakes? I'm growing up playing, living, working, and chasing foxes in a swamp. You might want to back down on the mud debate--I warn YOU, I have not yet begun to fight! :)~Hannahoot
YES with the alligators and the snakes!
ReplyDeleteThey're spectacular and intimidating. One particular encounter along the Loxahatchee stands out in my mind; My father and I were canoeing. We came within a few feet of a humongous female alligator sleeping on her nest. Needless to say, we were quiet. In any case, my scout troop had a herpetologist come once a year and give a refresher on snake identification and snakebite first aid. Do you know what to do?
Anyway, It's good to know where your roots are. It's a little more of a mystery for me. I mean, we share grandfathers, but it's not like I live on the family plot or anything. Not everyone is so lucky. At no point have I said that the country isn't the place for you. I wouldn't dream of it. You don't have to sell me on it either. I've been there. I don't visit as often as I'd like but i think about it often. When are you coming to Brooklyn? We have to play boccie at Union Hall.
Generalizations and stereotypes and their proliferation have caused a large portion of the human suffering in this world. I find them deeply perilous. Calling them out is vital.